[shadow007in]

I think the reasons the updates are declining is because the series is complete.

Before the seventh book was out, everyone was curious about what could happen next in the series, so they started to put their ideas in fanfiction. But after the release of last book most of the questions have been answered and many authors have lost interest in their fics.

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg13888.html#msg13888

[wimvincken]

the other reason that web site loses viewers sometimes is stories are not updating anymore and they are sick and tired seeing slash every day being updated. Look at the love hina stories of all the stories that one is in the bottom of the list with the most incomplete stories not counted harry potter because they have more posted stories

Not 100% true, Juan.

This is internet speaking here, everything goes fast.
Those generation of people who grew up (in the key-age) with the release of Harry Potter is older now and replaced with other people, who saw Harry Potter as second hand. So thousands of people were finished with the Harry Potter heap and moved on.

Another factor is that sites like ff.net, harrypotterfanfiction.com and the like started with a certain policy, which is still not changed because of two reasons:
1. The advertisers don't like to see those changes
2. The sites and databases were not designed to handle those changes (like the special categories, multi-pairing, etc.)

Even when a site like ff.net has the guts to adopt, they can't because of the structure of the site. And the advertisers really didn't like to be associated with adult rated stories, especially when they advertise things for children.

But ff.net obviously tried to allow those adult rated story (some of them are still there) and acted like they did not see it. The advertisers of course sometimes started to complain, and the stories were removed. Other times nobody said anything (then only the users, but who cares for them, not?) and the adult rated stories stay.
If they realy want to enforce their policy, it would be over within seconds, literally.

Allowing advertisers for the WC4 and ficdom has the same restrictions, almost. If we find the advertisers, then they must accept the sites as they are, and that means adult rated stories. That is different then the time ff.net and the rest started.

Ficwad started with adult rated stories and had never changed

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg13878.html#msg13878

[juanjoseso]

the other reason that web site loses viewers sometimes is stories are not updating anymore and they are sick and tired seeing slash every day being updated. Look at the love hina stories of all the stories that one is in the bottom of the list with the most incomplete stories not counted harry potter because they have more posted stories

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg13877.html#msg13877

[juanjoseso]

yea but I bet a few of those idiots are disgasting gays and lesbians that's why that web site is allowing that crap

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg13876.html#msg13876

[Su-33]

what those idiots need to do is allow NC-17 stories alot of people are forced to post them places that not many go to those idiots are stupid and useless when they ban or take down stories

But the advertisers wouldn't like them to be there do they? They are the ones paying the server so they got a say in what to allow and not to allow. They don't want to lose $10000 a year just to allow some people posting those stories...

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg13874.html#msg13874

[juanjoseso]

what those idiots need to do is allow NC-17 stories alot of people are forced to post them places that not many go to those idiots are stupid and useless when they ban or take down stories

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg13873.html#msg13873

[wimvincken]

From all the fanfiction stories in ff.net, HP fanfiction is by far the biggest collection within the site.
The interest in HP fanfiction is already going down for some time (several years) and hit it lowest point last year.
ff.net is a commercial entity and when there is not enough interest in the site, then logicality the site goes down. The company fired already several people last year and it did not promise well during that year.

They responded finally (after kicking out those people) and they improved the site some what. It did not help much, but at least the downward trend was not so steep anymore. The interests is still waning, but they can now survive a bit longer (according stats), unless they change their tune and get modernized.

When it goes down, well, it is the biggest one out there and even when there is a lot of things going on which are not nice, there is the biggest collection of fics and it would be a very big loss if that would be the case.

The biggest problems with those sites like ff.net and others is that they treat fanfiction still like it was many years ago. In the mean while, all the whiners are gone and the core of the fanfiction readers want to read harem and multi-pairing stories, dark!harry and all the tasty categories, but those sites do not adopt. They are still using spoilers (what a joke, who is still using that?), simple pairing (while many modern (and popular) HP-fics have different pairings like that (read here multi-pairings and so)).

Also the categories are not up-to-date, they never change it! Using the normal categories (like the official fiction genres) is not applicable anymore, because there are much more categories, which are more popular (like dark, independent, evil, manipulative, erotic, time travel, etc.). Then there is the issue of slash and not-slash fiction. Can you imagine, that there is no indicator you can switch on or off to define if your fic is slash or not?
Sites like ff.net and the like do not adopt, they don't listen to their public and seem not to care about anything! What ever you do or say, they simply ignore their customers, their lifeblood, their source of income! And what happens with a company like that? It will go down, of course.

A site like ff.net is a commercial entity. As long as there are many visitors, they have income from advertisement. If the number of visitors goes down, ff.net will earn less. As long as the traffic continued for ff.net, and people complained, they did not care. When the public massively stayed away after a while, they reacted. But do they listen to the public? No. They simply changed something in their site, but they actually did not make any change in the real need of change, the categories. They added the crossovers to ff.net, but the majority is not interested in crossovers!

Knowing how companies work, they probably got another change from their investors and until now the results do not look promising! When ff.net does not improve dramatically, they will turn off the money stream and that will be it.

With as result, sites like the WC4 were created to have some sort of other category system in its place and WC4 has (it's not complete, but there are the most interesting fics here).
Knowing what might happen with a site like ff.net (and I suspect when it happens, it will happen suddenly), it would damage the WC4 enormously, because most of the fics here point to the ff.net.
I would have several options.
One of them would be copy the contents of the ff.net and publish it to an alternative site (if there is time to do that). The WC4 has that capacity. And the WC4 has the ability to define if a fic is slash, if it belongs to the more modern categories and which ones and all that jazz). For me it would be very simple to run a script to determine if the fic is slash or not.
Another alternative is to delete all the index fics here, which point to the ff.net
Another alternative is to ignore the whole thing (like ff.net is usually doing) and ask the readers to find for alternative locations if there are any).


Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg13450.html#msg13450

[Helltanz98]

HP fan fiction we never stop which means that fnafiction.net will always be there even though the site sucks

 
Could someone please explain the big deal with FF.net?

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg13446.html#msg13446

[sim293]

HP fan fiction we never stop which means that fnafiction.net will always be there even though the site sucks


Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg11223.html#msg11223

[wimvincken]

Some of the problems there are done by design. It is a good way to attract traffic.

Like with the "idiot boy" problems, they received a lot of attention and extra hits.
Idiot boy stolen fics received thousands of hits.
And with all the fuzz, Jay (the actual owner of the fic) got many extra readers too.

FF is managed by a commercial company, and that means good and bad things.
The bad thing is that the so called 'mods' are seeing the site as an entity, which is only interesting for them to manage, not the content and the reading. I doubt that they like to read the content.
The good thing is that they only focus on the site software and for them everyone can add their fics into their site.

About the fics, which do fall outside their rules, they don't enforce it. For them it is extreme easy to determine which fics fall within or outside their rules, but they choose to ignore it (for the time being).
For example the harum and multi-pairing fics. There are many fics,which belong to that category, and the author tells very clear in the description that the fic is a harem or multi fic. The engine does not allow changes in the categories of ff.net, so youc an't categorize the fic as harem or multi-pairing, so it is very hard to find those fics then only searching for keywords.

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg9920.html#msg9920

[Helltanz98]

It's a trend in the HP universe.
Some site owners invest their efforts in the sites, most of them don't.
FF.net, as a company, invest enough, but they only maintain the site. Their efforts are mainly passive, they do not interact with the people who are visiting. And that is really a pity, because when they would do that, and they would combine their resources with the community, it would be a truly great site.

yep to get something done on FF.net you have to bug them constantly, say reporting a troll i.e. Samael takes a lot of effort to get the mods attention

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg9897.html#msg9897

[wimvincken]

It's a trend in the HP universe.
Some site owners invest their efforts in the sites, most of them don't.
FF.net, as a company, invest enough, but they only maintain the site. Their efforts are mainly passive, they do not interact with the people who are visiting. And that is really a pity, because when they would do that, and they would combine their resources with the community, it would be a truly great site.

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg9876.html#msg9876

[Helltanz98]

well that was interesting

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg9865.html#msg9865

[wimvincken]

Fictionalley now is one of the base for Ginny Lovers and Ron/Hermione ship lovers. Let's not count Draco Malfoy...

Well, not 100% correct. That would not be the issue of dropping almost from the charts.

There is a combination of factors involved.
First of all, the site owners are not so Internet savvy and have not a 'feel' for their public anymore.
Secondly, they don't spend or invest as much time on the site and its contents as it was before.
Thirdly, the structure of their database and site does not allow changes in the classifications of their fics (they are struck with what they have and can't change or adopt).
Fourthly, their authors do not update their fics anymore, just like it is everywhere. To get new authors, they need to change their structure of database and site to offer that to them and they can't.

Result is simple, the interest goes down.
No exciting fics, no readers, no advertisers, no ... what ever

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg9857.html#msg9857

[wimvincken]

First when was the 09 data acquired

and it seems fiction alley has lost a great deal of interest

Very easy. The stats is from their search engine and some advanced stats I had from an external job I had.


Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg9856.html#msg9856

[Helltanz98]

Fictionalley now is one of the base for Ginny Lovers and Ron/Hermione ship lovers. Let's not count Draco Malfoy...

Yes lets not even bring up the ferret

... so err to use the SB signature a priority nuke it from Orbit then...

So does that mean the stupid pairings popularity is dying... thats a good thing I would think.

Still in any case do we have a date for when the stats for 09 were acquired

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg9854.html#msg9854

[Su-33]

Fictionalley now is one of the base for Ginny Lovers and Ron/Hermione ship lovers. Let's not count Draco Malfoy...

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg9850.html#msg9850

[Helltanz98]

First when was the 09 data acquired

and it seems fiction alley has lost a great deal of interest

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg9834.html#msg9834

[Juuso]

True.

I think it'd work too.

This story I'm doing now I have about another 25K left and I flesh all that out so I'm gonna stick with it and finish it.

And I'm writing other bits 'n pieces for my other fic.

But yeah, nagging would help stick to one fic.

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg8104.html#msg8104

[Snidget41]

snipped...

But yeah, my biggest problem is I stop wanting to work on one fic for a while so start a new one.

I suspect that unlike writers with a publisher, lack of a cash incentive, not to mention nagging, plays a big factor in not sticking with a particular story.  I kinda liked Wim's idea of nagging specific authors, but it seems to me, a carrot in hand might help more! Too bad we can't be funded with grant money!

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg8099.html#msg8099

[Juuso]

The way I work things out for the most part, there are some I don't do this for but I usually just start writing when I'm travelling which is fairly frequently because of RL, namely my job and college now (1.5 hour travelling to college every day!) and I just write until I'm done working or have something of good length and then make sure it works as a fic.
But yeah, my biggest problem is I stop wanting to work on one fic for a while so start a new one.

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg8094.html#msg8094

[Snidget41]

the problem with writing fics and posting them chapterwise is that winging it works only for 1 out of 1000 authors (i think). But creating a plotline beforehand is the sort of work most authors dont seem to like, which leads to them entangling themselves in a web of plotlines and characters and their interaction they cant make head or tails of, which they would need to get the whole thing where they wanted too.

also not helping are other influences like RL problems, school etc. i mean if you get a new job and have to move and also come to grips with it you are less likely to continue writing, and afterwards you dont even remember the next 2 steps in the plot, so you cant continue...

Exacty!  You expressed the point much better than I could.  But nonetheless, we wait in great anticipation of the next author who builds a carefully conceived plot plan!! Thank you!

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg8091.html#msg8091

[DtH]

...
I do note that some authors, when they receive enough encouragement, will take a one-shot into many chapters.  OTOH, authors writing novel length smut usually can't finish, as they get too burdened down in a set style of writing smut and don't really have a plot to carry the fiction.

I certainly share everyone's frustration in finding a worthwhile read, only to find the author bailed out.  I do like the FF sites that at least give me a clue up-front on story status.   

the problem with writing fics and posting them chapterwise is that winging it works only for 1 out of 1000 authors (i think). But creating a plotline beforehand is the sort of work most authors dont seem to like, which leads to them entangling themselves in a web of plotlines and characters and their interaction they cant make head or tails of, which they would need to get the whole thing where they wanted too.

also not helping are other influences like RL problems, school etc. i mean if you get a new job and have to move and also come to grips with it you are less likely to continue writing, and afterwards you dont even remember the next 2 steps in the plot, so you cant continue...



then the ficwad system is ideal for you^^ underneath every chapter and its summary theres the date it was posted or updated => you see how often the updates were coming before. if there always was a month between updates, and the last was 3 days ago, you can expect the next in 4 weeks time before thinking about the author having dropped it.

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg8090.html#msg8090

[Snidget41]

Aside from the obvious continuing issues of posting rules at FF and technical posting difficulties some authors exerience at Ficwad, the 2007 peak was somewhat driven by "you wrote one, now I'll give it a try"  -- which resulted in a lot of garbage. 

Like Wim, I was rather disappointed in the direction the last of the HP Canon, particularly book 7 -- though I did read it once.  Some of the character build-up that came from books 1-5 was disregarded or destroyed in 6 and 7.  That left battles to be fought on DLord, and while some comments are well thought out, there is too much trash in-between.... Frustrating!
I do note that some authors, when they receive enough encouragement, will take a one-shot into many chapters.  OTOH, authors writing novel length smut usually can't finish, as they get too burdened down in a set style of writing smut and don't really have a plot to carry the fiction.

I certainly share everyone's frustration in finding a worthwhile read, only to find the author bailed out.  I do like the FF sites that at least give me a clue up-front on story status.   

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg8086.html#msg8086

[bloodyshadow]

I think the simple fact that this site is expanding (or trying to) shows that Harry Potter fandom isn't quite doomed yet.  One thing I've noticed is that fanfiction.net seems to be among the most well known, but nearly every good author complains about their system.  Beyond that the other big question is whether or not this site will expand to cover more fandoms as HP fades off or stay focused and try to attract reliable authors.

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg7630.html#msg7630

[wimvincken]

because idiots stop writing and never go back to writing it what's the use of fan fiction if no body finish a story too many idiots giving up their stories. I'm glad I will be the first ever writer to do something no body will ever do write down the story first and then post it I hate reviews they make me sick wants me want to destory every review idiots write. Look at this owner from here only posting stories that will never update and himself give up on his stories

I know how you feel.
But it is not only the fault of the authors themselves, also the environment works against them. The fact that they write something is already something positive, not? The other fact that they don't clean up their stuff (remove it, declare it clearly as abandoned or simply finish it, is beside the point, not?

The ficdom.net is in development, as you maybe know. That fic archiving site must have an answer about those things. Or force the authors to finish or declare the fic as abandoned or something else. I'm still looking for ideas

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg6742.html#msg6742

[juanjoseso]

because idiots stop writing and never go back to writing it what's the use of fan fiction if no body finish a story too many idiots giving up their stories. I'm glad I will be the first ever writer to do something no body will ever do write down the story first and then post it I hate reviews they make me sick wants me want to destory every review idiots write. Look at this owner from here only posting stories that will never update and himself give up on his stories

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg6740.html#msg6740

[wimvincken]

Hmm... Never been too ginnypotter before? What did they do?

Only Harry/Ginny pairing. Many teenager girls are there, innocent and clean.
The admin is a girl or young woman as well (I think), and those idiots of DLP thought to be funny and tried to shock the girls with porn and other 'shocking' posts.

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg6705.html#msg6705

[Su-33]

Hmm... Never been too ginnypotter before? What did they do?

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg6703.html#msg6703

[wimvincken]

One thing will be sure. The navigation mods installed this weekend will be the basis of easy and direct navigation to fics you like. It is easy then to skip the abandoned fics

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg6699.html#msg6699

[wimvincken]

I'm still playing with ideas how to guarantee the quality of the fics in ficdom.net.

Fics, which are not being finished, abandoned, are not interesting for the readers. I play with the idea to nag the authors of fics, which fics are abandoned. I even play with the idea that when authors abandon the fics, that they will give the fic to the community for adaption.

But as I said, it is only an idea. Before implementing something like that, I will discuss it here in the forums.

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg6698.html#msg6698

[wimvincken]

This type of trend isn't just in Harry Potter fanfics, any show/movie/book that has ended its canon run gets less and less new and updated fanfics, because there's no new material to go off of. Good news is that means the ones that do update are the great stories people like to read and the authors they support. Not to mention the less crack oneshot fic we have to shift threw to find a good one.

Nop. There are many fic universes, which are finished, but are still popular.
They are also being promoted at schools to read and students read their works for their grades.

Literature in general has of course the same trends. Shakespeare is dead already for some time, and still there is an interest, and here are many fics written in the Shakespeare universe.

A big reason for the decline of HP-fanfiction is not because the series is finished (there was already a sharp decline when the series was still being written and the last movies were not even released!)

One of the reason for that - in my opinion - was the quality of the last books (I did not read any new hp book after book 5).
Another reason for the decline was the availability of websites, which were trying to enforce their policy, which is hopeless out of time. FF.Net is fine, but there is not for nothing a sharp decline of visitors to the site! The fact that small sites like the hpfanficarchive.com was so successful proof the fact that there is still interest, but something is broken in the community.

The behavior of the guys at DLP does not help the issue, because they are many times destructive for ideas and hp-trends (like the ginnypotter.com website).

And how strange as it sounds, websites specialized in Harry Potter fans are still very popular. They receive millions of hits per day and their advertisement income still goes into the 6 digits per year! It is the HP-fan fiction itself, which is in decline (at the major fan fiction archiving sites).

So, that trend is - in my opinion - caused because of incompetence of those, who are running those sites


Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg6697.html#msg6697

[Su-33]

Good news is that means the ones that do update are the great stories people like to read and the authors they support. Not to mention the less crack oneshot fic we have to shift threw to find a good one.

Exactly :applaud:

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg6690.html#msg6690

[Vechero]

This type of trend isn't just in Harry Potter fanfics, any show/movie/book that has ended its canon run gets less and less new and updated fanfics, because there's no new material to go off of. Good news is that means the ones that do update are the great stories people like to read and the authors they support. Not to mention the less crack oneshot fic we have to shift threw to find a good one.

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg6688.html#msg6688

[wimvincken]

it seems hp fanfiction is fading rapidly

It was a trend, which happened before I helped Chad with his HPFanficarchive.com.

All HP-sites had the same problems, a declining interest, less and less people willingly to publish their fics, less and less visitors and the whole bunch.

And it was not only the problem of that people were not interested anymore, but people had enough. That statement was proven correct when I started the HPFanficarchive.com and that site was the only site, which saw such growth! From about 100 visitors a month to 7.9 million visitors the same month before I left.

FF.Net was also the first time in serious trouble, because the decline was so noticeable, that they were getting problems with the advertisers, until they woke up and hired a SEO company and it improved a bit.

And ff.net has now other problems. The decline of the visitors and authors is continuing and they were forced to cut the costs.

The reason why the large sites like ff.net, HarryPotterFanFiction.com and Fiction Alley were so much in trouble, because their engines did not support the type of fics, everyone was so much interested in. Their rules, policies and engines were designed for fan fiction, which was popular years ago. Now with the new demands, they can't deliver!

They can't make any changes in their engines, because of all the existing fics!

So, every new site who did the correct thing got all the traffic, that together with SEO and Web 2.0, led to increase of traffic for the HPFanficarchive.com

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[LethalJoker]

it seems hp fanfiction is fading rapidly

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg5842.html#msg5842

[wimvincken]

There are totally 413,031 HP-fics at FF.Net (1/8/2009) (445,001 HP-fics at FF.Net (2/25/2010)
Here follows some interesting statistics about fics, being updated per year:

Totals, all fan fic archiving sites together
2001 0.4% updates
2002 2.9% updates
2003 6.0% updates
2004 7.5% updates
2005 9.0% updates
2006 15.9% updates
2007 40.0% updates
2008 16.4% updates
2009 8.8% updates
2010 2.9% updates

The statistics are taken from HarryPotterFanFiction.com, FicWad, Fiction Alley and Fanfiction.net

Fan fiction archiving site with the most updates per year
2001 Fiction Alley (0.9%)
2002 Fiction Alley (10%)
2003 Fiction Alley (23.9%)
2004 Fiction Alley (23.2%)
2005 Fiction Alley (17.7%)
2006 HarryPotterFanFiction.com (23.2%)
2007 Fanfiction.net (51.2%)
2008 FicWad (22.6%)
2009 FicWad (8.6%)
2010 FicWad (1.2%)

More details...

Linkback: http://forum.writingcenter4.info/index.php/topic,4669.msg5317.html#msg5317

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